Kaltxì, ma frapo.
A very belated Mipa Zìsìt Lefpom. Nìrangal oe tsirvun pivlltxe san fìzìsit sngolä’i nìltsan sìk, slä ke tsängun. At least there’s room for things to get better as the year progresses.
Kezemplltxe, I have a lot of comments and submissions to respond to, but the situation in Los Angeles right now is difficult, and my mind is on other things. I’ll get to the needed responses as soon as I can.
In the meantime, let me share a recent email discussion with you that I think you’ll find interesting.
A member of the lì’fyaolo’ wrote:
A question came up about pum:
Could pum ever be used without a narrowing descriptor attached? (We seem to have no examples of this.)
e.g., Is the following translation valid?
‘You have too many arrows? Give me one!’
Lu ngaru swizaw nìhawng srak? (?)Tìng oer pumit!
Or, is the sentence Tìng oer pumit ungrammatical because pum has no narrowing descriptor like an adjective or clause or genitive along with it?
My response:
Your analysis of pum, in that it requires a narrowing descriptor (I like that terminology!), is correct. That’s the only thing we’ve seen so far, and I’d like to keep it that way.
So I would not consider Tìng oer pumit grammatical. But there’s a simple way out of this:
When you’re saying “Give me one,” it really is one, not two or three or twenty. If it were, “Give me five,” for example, what would that be?
Lu ngaru swizaw nìhawng srak? Tìng oer pumit amrr!
That’s fine, since pumit has the descriptor amrr.
So ‘Give me one’ would be:
Tìng oer pumit a’aw!
That being said, some related things came to mind.
First, when you say “Give me one,” what are you really saying? It’s “Give me one OF THEM,” i.e., give me one of the things you have or that we’ve been talking about.
Some languages make “of them” in this context obligatory. Take French and Italian, for example. (I’ll switch from “arrow” to “book” for familiarity.) For “You have too many books. Give me five.”:
FRENCH: Tu as trop de livres. Donne-m’en cinq.
ITALIAN: Hai troppi libri. Dammene cinque.
Here, en in French and ne in Italian are obligatory particles, often classified as pronouns, that mean “of them.”
But other languages don’t require this.
SPANISH: Tienes demasiados libros. Dame cinco.
GERMAN: Du hast zu viele Bücher. Gib mir fünf.
You could specify “of them” in these languages by adding “de ellos” (Sp.) and “davon” (Ger.), but it’s not obligatory.
I’d like Na’vi to have the non-obligatory “of them” option. That would be sawta (from aysa’u + ta) for non-animates, fota (ayfo + ta) for people. So, for example:
Lu ngaru ’eveng apukap, slä smon oer fota pum amrr nì’aw.
‘You have six children, but I only know five of them.’
Note that without fota, the sentence could conceivably be ambiguous. Perhaps you’re saying you’ve only known five kids in your entire experience, not necessarily the kids of the person you’re speaking to! Adding fota rules out that admittedly unlikely interpretation.
Another thing: “Give me one!” made me consider a different use of “one,” as in “You have a house and I have one too.”
Should we use pum here? *Lu ngaru kelku ulte lu oer pum kop?
That violates the “narrowing descriptor” rule, and this time you can’t save it with a’aw, because you’re not talking about one as opposed to more than one. So I would rule that ungrammatical. How to translate the sentence, then? Probably just:
Lu ngaru kelku, ulte oeru nìteng.
Another hapxìtu lì’fyaolo’ä responded:
The only complication is that the genitive is sometimes used in this partitive sense, adding questions for me for the {sawta} and {fota} uses.
Na’viyä luyu hapxì.
‘You are part of the Na’vi.’
Tsu’teyìl tolìng oer mawlit smarä.
Tsu’tey gave me a half of the prey.
So, you’ve used both genitives and {ta} for a partitive. How would you say, “send five of the warriors” (out of a larger group) vs. just “send five warriors?”
My response:
Good point about the genitive option. I actually considered it myself. The reason I went with the ta forms is because of the ambiguity of genitives like feyä:
Lu ayngaru pxaya tsamsiyu. Fpe’ ayoer __?__ pumit amrr.
‘You have many warriors. Send us five of them.’
The genitive form here would be feyä. But that looks like a possessive adjective, i.e. ‘their,’ with a resulting meaning something like, ‘Send us their five ones,’ which doesn’t make sense in this context. Fota doesn’t run into that problem.
But the examples you’ve pointed out with the genitive aren’t wrong. There are two related ways to form partitives, which are sometimes but not always interchangeable:
1a. Na’viyä luyu hapxì.
1b. Na’vita luyu hapxì.
2a. Tsu’teyìl tolìng oer mawlit smarä.
2b. Tsu’teyìl tolìng oer mawlit smarta.
The a and b forms are acceptable in both cases. I’ll have to consider whether there are rules for preferring one over the other; right now I can’t think of any. But sawta and fota should be used with pum.
Hayalovay.